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We have a question on building an army

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steve@clan-dean.com
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We have a question on building an army

Postby steve@clan-dean.com » December 26th, 2017, 5:04 pm

We have a question on building an army.
I'm trying to play a game with my son but we cannot get together on how the points work to build an army. Two armies and points of view are:
A Myphistic Blight-Hauler costs 85 points and it states in its description that "Each model is armed with a missile launcher, a multi-melta, a bile spurt and a gnashing maw". Player 2 says - as it points out - that Points per model "Does not include weapons or wargear" so it comes unarmed so the standard points to bring one is 142 points instead of 85.
On the other side, an Astra Militarium Heavy Weapons squad consists of 3 x models for 4 points and a mortar costs 5 points for a total on 9 points. This can be understood by both but player 2 says that is a team and a squad is 3 mortars and 3 teams for 27 points (notice he still totaled points for 3 x separate squads plus 3 x weapons).
Player 2 insists that he gets 3 x mortars and 3 x teams (bases) as a squad, based on the picture on the box it came in, 2 men and one heavy weapon on a single base equals 1 team and 3 bases makes 3 x models and 1 x squad.
Points for the 3 x mortars and teams make sense but the number of heavy weapons don't make sense for the masses of troops for a balanced game to play. For example, in a 750 point game player 2s army has 9 x mortars, 3 x lascannons, 6 x autocannons, 6 x 10 man infantry squads and 5 x HQ units. versus 1 x chaos lord, 1 x defiler, 1 x myphitic blight-hauler and 38 x poxwalkers (was 3 blight-haulers but had to take out 2 for the points change). How are points added up to use these two examples? If the description of a unit states "each model is armed with" does it come with those items included or not and is a heavy weapons squad 1 x weapons with crew? 3 x bases including 3 x weapons and 2 crew on eash?

It would be helpful if something like easy army's list builder was available for this. Does anyone know of a list builder for WH40k?
Thanks
Steve



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Dizzlebomb
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Re: We have a question on building an army

Postby Dizzlebomb » December 26th, 2017, 7:01 pm

I find points to be a bit confusing in 8th editon, but to answer the question about Myphitic Blight-hauler, it always costs 142 points. You must take the Bile Spurt, Missile Launcher, and Multi-Melta... there are no options not to take these. The book lists base cost of 85 points but that number is essentially meaningless because the weapons must be taken and they do cost their cost on top of that base cost. This is in an effort to maintain consistency as I see it.

An Astra Militarum Heavy Weapons 'Squad' always contains 3 Heavy Weapons 'Teams', each team has a base cost of 6pts, has two team members and two wounds for that large base (theoretically one wound for each guy) but that big base is considered a 'model'. Each team/model can contain it's own Heavy Weapon choice... a squad could have one team w/ an autocannon, one w/ a heavy bolter, and one w/ a las cannon. Usually people run a Squad using the same Heavy Weapon choice across all 3 teams, but you can do it if you wish. You pay for those weapon choices separately of course. Each team has one regular lasgun as well on the other partner fellow which is part of the 6 point team base cost.

I use the BattleScribe app for the phone (and for the computer from time to time). It is usually correct in terms of points and can help answer these types of questions. It recently got the Chapter Approved points updates as well.

Based on what I think you asked:
Player 1 Costs:
Chaos Lord (you didn't say options, so cheapest option = Bolt Pistol & Chainsword) - 76pts (he gets rerolls of 1s to hit so Plasma is certainly good if it makes sense, this is a fairly shitty loadout)
Defiler (you didn't say options so cheapest option = Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon, Defiler Scourge) = 167pts (it can get a lot better and a lot more expensive)
Myphitic Blight-Hauler - 142pts
Poxwalker Unit 1 (20 Poxwalkers) - 120pts
Poxwalker Unit 2 (18 Poxwalkers) - 108pts
Death Guard cost - 611pts

Player 2 Costs:
HWS Squad (Morters) - 33pts * 3 = 99pts
HWS Squad (Las Cannons) - 78pts *1 = 78pts
HWS Squad (Autocannons) - 54pts * 2 = 108pts
Infantry Squad (stock, no upgrades) - 60pts * 6 = 360pts
HQ (you didn't say which, so we'll go with Company Commander) - 30pts * 5 = 150pts
Astra Militarum cost - 795pts

From my experience player 2 has the makings of a fairly decent list or at least a solid core. Player 1's doesn't yet. From playing both of these armies, I feel like Death Guard really challenges the list builder (also really need the strategems to tick) and Astra Militarum kinda doesn't challenge the list builder much, you can basically throw any kinda gun in there you want, give it some orders... and shoot it.

I'm all for talking strategy and helping the Death Guard try and come up with a bit more of a formidable strategy here. This would not remotely be a fair fight in my opinion in most cases, even if you added a unit to try and match Player 1's point cost. I do like Poxwalkers a lot, but they require a series of moving parts for them to really excel.

Azrael
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Joined: January 9th, 2016, 1:36 pm

Re: We have a question on building an army

Postby Azrael » December 27th, 2017, 5:59 pm

If it helps, download BattleScribe on your phone or computer. Free download and automatically adds all wargear points for your force. It's very helpful

Zsruk
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Re: We have a question on building an army

Postby Zsruk » December 28th, 2017, 7:47 am

I'll be the third voice for battlescribe. It isn't always 100% accurate, but they update regularly and it will tell you if you have errors in your list that would make it illegal.


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